Burrows

geekjeff
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Re: Burrows

Post by geekjeff » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:36 am

Thanks all for taking the time to explain your thought process, this is really useful feedback.

I think Burrows sold well enough that DF will be in the black on them, and now there's a cool new terrain option in the world which is great. They didn't sell well enough that there's likely to be any major expansions developed for them, unless they perform super well in the webstore. Fortunately they're a pretty complete system as presented, the only major thing I'd like to see added someday is a modular system for building larger chambers.

If you passed on Burrows for budget reasons, they will definitely be stocked in the webstore for you to collect later.

I think Vegomatic had a good take on Burrows earlier in the thread - they're not just a giant bug colony, you can do quite a lot of cool things with just a sampler of them. Much more so than Streets or Sewers or Mountains even, which feel like they need a "big buy" to really be useful. One Tunnels pack and one Accessories pack gets you all the transition pieces, and is enough to use for:
- random ambush encounters or wild monster lairs
- secret passageways in dungeons or cities. Smuggler's Den or Thieves' Guild!
- side quests or optional objectives in a dungeon or cavern
- prison breakout or vault breakin scenarios (Shawshank or Ocean's 11, anyone?)
- for tactical layouts like Frostgrave, etc they can be both a shortcut or a choke point

I like the idea of how they can change up the party dynamics in an RPG - I plan to grant bonuses or penalties based on PC size. Dwarves, gnomes, halflings, and goblins should feel right at home in there, humans, elves, orcs etc are gonna have a bad time. Ever tried to keep up with your kids in playscape tunnels? Yeah, that.

They're definitely hard to wrap your head around what you can build without handling and experimenting with them. I can totally understand how they felt like an easy thing to trim when the decisions got hard. Hopefully everyone will get a chance to experiment with them in the future, because they really are neat pieces.

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dice4hire
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Re: Burrows

Post by dice4hire » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:29 am

kitenerd wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:58 pm

I keep screaming the same message. Give us less, we'll spend the same and you'll make more.
I keep saying that but it seems DF has no intentions of doing it. I really do not think offering more is a surefire way to get more money. I would prefer to see a strong 50 piece KS with great value in packs with much lower mold costs.
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kodiakbear
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Re: Burrows

Post by kodiakbear » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:57 pm

I loved the look of the burrows and could use them in lots of games but I could not even afford a unpainted DoD so I had to either go for dungeon stuff or burrows and since KS5 was advertised as a return to dungeons I had gone into it thinking of dungeons.

I would love to get 3 big sets of burrows from the store next year.

Now during KS4 it was easy for me to get 3+ big sets of Mountains because I really did not need much in the way of castles. And during KS3 I could get several big sewer sets because I did not need a capital city of CBS or streets.

So in short KS5 just had to much awesome for my wallet.

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kitenerd
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Re: Burrows

Post by kitenerd » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:58 pm

Burrows for me are exactly the same as Mountains - by the time they were introduced to the KS i was already shaving things to meet my budget. (It is important to note that i did get a Jade Pit and a Jade Inner Sanctum, so if i had REALLY wanted burrows...) I think they are cool and beautifully sculpted, but didn't feel like i would get the mileage out of them that i would from vaulted dungeons, traps and the temple bits (plus temple was limited edition color).

I keep screaming the same message. Give us less, we'll spend the same and you'll make more.

This does not seem to be the plan. There are enough people with deep pockets willing to spend multiple thousands each year that DF is successful with these expansive KS's. I can't keep up nor do i want to try. I can't get much from the webstore because every year i go over budget on the KS. If i had a few hundred to play catch up i would probably go Erinthor Mountains before i went Burrows. I am not complaining, I am happy with what i got (thrilled in fact) but i gave up trying to get it all during City Builder... Something had to give and Burrows seemed an obvious place to draw a line.
"Miniatures?, sure sign of a petty mind!" - 'The Women' 1939

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dice4hire
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Re: Burrows

Post by dice4hire » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:57 pm

While the OP has some good points, many of them boil down to personal preference, which is certainly all well and good. My personal preference lead me to a different result though.
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Pizzabagel
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Re: Burrows

Post by Pizzabagel » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:53 pm

I just watched Nate’s Burrows video on YouTube. I don’t remember seeing this particular video during the Kickstarter, which may have been my own negligence. The pieces look a lot bigger than I originally thought, and are very cool and organic-looking. Very innovative design. They may be the sleeper hit of this Kickstarter.

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Re: Burrows

Post by bernyleung » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:17 pm

Straight up, burrows looked cool, are cool. Clever design and execution. Just not that useful for me. Other things beckon. I'm not a "must have it all" kinda guy.

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zenmaster
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Re: Burrows

Post by zenmaster » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:06 pm

ForestZ wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:08 pm
Burrows were right out, regardless of how cool they were. There were too many other things I needed to get. I would like to say that eventually burrows will make it on my radar, but realistically, since I can't go all in each KS, there are still a backlog of sets and pieces I want. And given that DF won't stop making new pieces, there will continue to be other pieces that I will likely prioritize over that for quite a while.
I echo these sentiments exactly. I spent an ungodly amount on other stuff that was more cool and useful to me, so it was very easy to pass on the burrows. I did get one tunnels add-on and one accessories add-on to get the breached wall and enough burrows to add in a burrow to any adventure I run, but have no need for anything beyond that at the moment. Would never get used with all the other great pieces used in more common adventure settings. If I really run some kind of burrow-type adventure, I feel my caverns pieces can do just fine with the couple burrows add-ons I am getting in this one.

As always, i am glad that people who love the burrows are getting them. Just not for me, and I would think they are a low priority for DF expansion sets as the burrows were done pretty well.
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Re: Burrows

Post by iceycat » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:40 pm

I went all in on burrows. Full encounter in DoD plus 2 extra burrows elevation packs and 2 burrows tripod packs for verticality.

This is a fantastic example of something that felt new and fresh. Between the DoD and KS1 pieces I'll have more walls and corners than I could ever use but burrows is unique and cool.

They integrate beautifully with any cavern build and as others have suggested there's plenty of other imaginative uses for them too!

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Harneloot
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Re: Burrows

Post by Harneloot » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:33 pm

I am as yet unconvinced that Burrows will be used at my table all that much for one main reason: the minis won't stand well in them and the grid seems hard to see. I know there are work around fro that, and once I get them in my hand and mess around with them I may feel like those issues are not a big deal. I got a Khri Colony and an extra Elevation pack so I am certainly giving them a try, plus, I know my son will LOVE playing with them! :D

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