Which encounters offer the best "value"?

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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by 93x74R » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:06 pm

Mobius wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:03 am
I did my own value calculation for the encounters.

Here are my Subjective "Coolness/dollar" rankings:

1) Encounter 10 - Menagerie
2) Encounter 12 - Dais of the Dead
3) Encounter 2 - Arcane Corridors
4) Encounter 1 - Zaltar's Gameroom
5) Encounter 6 - Acid Bath
6) Encounter 4 - Deadly Corners
7) Encounter 5 - Gauntlet
8) Encounter 3 - Lever Chamber
I think your list nails it although I may think traps are cooler than you do. . I could not afford everything I wanted but level 2 plus the Gauntlet, some elevation and trays will still let me build some cool dungeons.

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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by zenmaster » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:10 am

Mobius wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:03 am
Here are my Subjective "Coolness/dollar" rankings:

1) Encounter 10 - Menagerie
2) Encounter 12 - Dais of the Dead
3) Encounter 2 - Arcane Corridors
4) Encounter 1 - Zaltar's Gameroom
5) Encounter 6 - Acid Bath
6) Encounter 4 - Deadly Corners
7) Encounter 5 - Gauntlet
8) Encounter 3 - Lever Chamber
(*I used the Dungeon 1 price for Zaltar's Game Room, since it saves $10 for the BYOD pledge - it would have been 6th using it's official add-on price)

Menagerie has a lot to it for a reasonable price, Dais of the dead has overall a lot of really cool pieces, and Arcane Corridors scored well because it's price is so small.
Interesting to see this. I think my views align with yours. My final KS pledge was Dungeon Level 3 which is encounters 1-6 and I am definitely adding Dais of the Dead and Menagerie in the PM!

I will also probably add the Puzzle Floors.

Not only for the coolness factor, but I think these encounters give a lot of useful base pieces (I am very light on KS 1 pieces having not been in on KS 1) as well as cool new ones.

I am debating now whether to get the whole Shrine of Sysuul or just some related addons. Have to go through spreadsheets to see what pieces the above encounters are short on, too. "Sigh"

Thanks for sharing!
Dungeon Crawl Classics enthusiast.

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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by Rabbit Burner » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:35 am

GODofwar wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:41 pm
Rabbit Burner wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:50 am
For KSV I used the little known but highly Bunny Factor of Awesomeness Quotient or BFoAQ.
For KS3 I worked out what I need to cover a 6x4 table.
For KS4 I had a very specific Castle I wanted to build - you may have seen the posts.
I did however use the BFoAQ for additional pieces such as mountains, parapets, buttresses and LEDs.
With KSV it was all about BFoAQ which led me to picking three encounters:
- Gorgon Tiers - had a massive BFoQA
- Lava Bridge
- Jade Temple
I think Lava Bridge BFoAQ elements can be got much more cheaply with AO's.
But then I'm the quintesstial Type I buyer who needs very little KS5 basics. lAVA has 29 KS5 basics pieces - probably more than I need in total, or at least half. And not a lot I can't get much cheaper as AO.

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Totus KS Delenda Sunt, Except KS5
That's feels a fair assessment - for me with no KS1 it feels like good value as it contains a whole mix of pieces .
What clinches it for me is there are a lot of cool pieces I know I can use in Castle builds for wargaming and narrative game play and gives me the ability to build some actual dungeons if I desire.
bernyleung wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:17 am
Rabbit Burner wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:50 am
For KSV I used the little known but highly Bunny Factor of Awesomeness Quotient or BFoAQ.

With KSV it was all about BFoAQ which led me to picking three encounters:
- Gorgon Tiers - had a massive BFoQA
- Lava Bridge
- Jade Temple
I'm surprised that Khri Colony didn't make your list. I didn't get it either, but I must admit that it is awesome.
Cant argue that its awesome, but when you live in a dim dark burrow getting a dwarvenite one somewhat loses its appeal ;)

I did like the idea of painting them Alien slick black and gooey and using them for Alien Predator scenarios - Tyranids would look good too with the right paint job. But my imagination needs restraining as I don't have the storage !!!!
But I reserve the right to change my mind ;)
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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by GODofwar » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:41 pm

Rabbit Burner wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:50 am
For KSV I used the little known but highly Bunny Factor of Awesomeness Quotient or BFoAQ.
For KS3 I worked out what I need to cover a 6x4 table.
For KS4 I had a very specific Castle I wanted to build - you may have seen the posts.
I did however use the BFoAQ for additional pieces such as mountains, parapets, buttresses and LEDs.
With KSV it was all about BFoAQ which led me to picking three encounters:
- Gorgon Tiers - had a massive BFoQA
- Lava Bridge
- Jade Temple
I think Lava Bridge BFoAQ elements can be got much more cheaply with AO's.
But then I'm the quintesstial Type I buyer who needs very little KS5 basics. lAVA has 29 KS5 basics pieces - probably more than I need in total, or at least half. And not a lot I can't get much cheaper as AO.

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Totus KS Delenda Sunt, Except KS5
WeaselWarGod

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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by bernyleung » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:17 am

Rabbit Burner wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:50 am
For KSV I used the little known but highly Bunny Factor of Awesomeness Quotient or BFoAQ.

With KSV it was all about BFoAQ which led me to picking three encounters:
- Gorgon Tiers - had a massive BFoQA
- Lava Bridge
- Jade Temple
I'm surprised that Khri Colony didn't make your list. I didn't get it either, but I must admit that it is awesome.

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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by Rabbit Burner » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:50 am

For KSV I used the little known but highly Bunny Factor of Awesomeness Quotient or BFoAQ.
For KS3 I worked out what I need to cover a 6x4 table.
For KS4 I had a very specific Castle I wanted to build - you may have seen the posts.
I did however use the BFoAQ for additional pieces such as mountains, parapets, buttresses and LEDs.
With KSV it was all about BFoAQ which led me to picking three encounters:
- Gorgon Tiers - had a massive BFoQA
- Lava Bridge
- Jade Temple
I am the Game and I want to Play

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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by GODofwar » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:59 pm

I personally wouldn't use the coolness rating...but its a cool idea...

...although I do something similar. I focus on process. Diff for each KS.

For KS5, here's my gig:

Step 1: Identify strategic level need.
--------------->I do NOT need a load of basic pieces. I have loads of KSI and resin.
--------------->There is NOTHIGN in KS5 I 'need' to build good dungeons.
---------------> So I have to approach KS5 as a severe 'Type I Buyer' - looking for 'cool' additions to dress up my dungeon....
--------------->,,,and enough KS5 basics to make a small area of the dungeon, a la Den of Evil/Mausoleum*/Chamber of Sorrows/ROtA/Woodlands etc.
*Mausoleum is the white grained resin put out by a US mfr DwF competitor.

Step 2: Identify what dress up items ('Bling') and usable new basic pieces ('structurals') I need.
For example, corner doors, double doors, grand sdtaircases, DAS BRIDGE, daises are all structural I think useful.
Bling includes most of the traps, many of the accessories (LED walls) and THE GOLEMS. Curse you Lady Sabelle.
I do this by going through each Encounter and listing the STructurals I need and then checking the SG for Bling. There are a few STructurals in SG and some Bling in Encounters, but this process works pretty well.

Step 3: I take my list from step 2, and determine how many of each I really need in stock. I keep in mind dthat especially for expensive structural, I only need a few...I can easily move them from a previous location to a new place PC are at, with ZERO loss of visual and tactical impact. This is the most important step: Remembering I do not need enough dupes to do a dungeon by putting unique expensive stdructurals in every room. This matters a lot b/c my dungeons frequently get to most of a 5x10 fly table and at least three levels.

Step 4: Back to the KS. Determine which Encounters I just gotta have anyway (Gorgon Tiers for the Golems, for example). I subtract the structural nd bling I get there anyway from The List.

Step 5: Determine which is cheaper, getting an Encounter or Add-Ons to be the remaining items.

I find this methodology approach, usually iterated once or twice, the best way for me to get to solution.


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Totus KS Delenda Sunt, esp ones with Lady Sabelle's irresistible sculpts (and Josh too dammit)
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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by Mobius » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:37 pm

Blue Prophet wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:42 pm
Neat idea Mobius. I would probably do my regular calculation of the cost per 2x2 of table coverage of an encounter (to give coverage value).
People should use whatever criteria makes sense for them - I just think that it's important to do an analysis of what's the best fit for you. If you have a $2000+ budget, you can get almost everything you like, but if your budget is $500 or less, there's some really tough decisions on what to get it.

Some encounters and add-ons have a lot of bling and look cool, while other more "boring" ones like Passages have a lot to them and offer a lot of hidden versatility.

The other challenge is that a $340 Encounter like the Gorgon Tiers is going to by default look amazing. People with limited budgets need a tool to compare that awesome encounter to six $40-70 Add-on Packs to truly see which way is the best for them to go.

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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by Blue Prophet » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:42 pm

Neat idea Mobius. I would probably do my regular calculation of the cost per 2x2 of table coverage of an encounter (to give coverage value). Then it would make sense to modify that with some "coolness" factor. I think maybe give a coolness rating per unique sculpt in an encounter, then average them or something, then multiply that by the cost per 2x2 to get some combination of value and coolness. I'm not used to doing these kinds of calculations so am not sure what good methods are. If you value coolness over table coverage, maybe weight one over the other.

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Re: Which encounters offer the best "value"?

Post by Mobius » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:35 pm

ebrandeis wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:17 am
I neeeeed this! Is it something you're willing to share? I've made many of my previous KS choices based on my own subjective "coolness" and/or usefulness. This KS is so full of cool that a tool like this is needed.
Here's a sample for Encounter 2. For whatever reason, I did it in Notepad instead of a spreadsheet.

Encounter 2

Piece: Qty x Rate = Total
V-Wall: 2 X 4 = 8
V-Wall Magn: 1 X 5 = 5
V-Wall LED Alc: 1 X 7 = 7
V-Wall Corn: 2 X 4 = 8
2x2 Floor: 5 X 2 = 10
1x2 Floor: 2 X 2 = 4
1 Ward Door: 1 X 6 = 6
Corner out: 2 X 2 = 4
Corner In: 2 X 2 = 4
Wall Psg: 4 X 3 = 12
Wall Psg Magn: 2 X 4 = 8
Wall Psg Sml: 4 X 2 = 8
Spike Trap: 1 X 6 = 6
LED Torch: 1 X 3 = 3
LED Orb: 1 X 2 = 2
Blade Trap: 2 X 3 = 6
Glyph: 1 X 2 = 2
Corner Pillar: 2 X 3 = 6
Wall of Force: 3 X 3 = 9

Grand Total: 110 rating for $81
Coolness Ratio: 1.358

My basic rationale was that comparing an $81 Encounter 2 with some of the big encounters is like comparing apples and oranges (same thing for the add-on packs). Arcane Corridors doesn't look very impressive but it has a lot of SG's for under half the price of many other encounters. This system was a crude attempt for me to chose between a few large packs or many small packs, and between mostly encounters vs. all add-ons.

The big problem with my system is that it doesn't account for duplication of pieces (some pieces may be cool to have 1 or 2 of, but the rating should go down for 12 of them). I kept raising the top limit, but it still doesn't give enough pts for the mega-pieces. An 8x8 floor, six 2x2 floors or twelve 1x1 floors all scored the same, but clearly I'd most want the 8x8 floor. So a more extreme scoring system would have been better.

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