Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by Oldent » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:20 pm

AnimeSensei wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:46 am
We are getting caught up again in contention and irrelevant issues.

Simple answer is:

KS1 and KS2 are highly compatible with each other in regards to footprint/height of their pieces. KS3 and KS4 are highly compatible with each other in regards to footprint/height of their pieces. The 2 different scales are highly similar but there is a difference between each grouping. KS5 has been stated to be more in line with the KS1 and KS2 size. They still work with KS3 and KS4 but work better with KS1 and KS2. That's it.
When you use the term scale like this you are adding to and creating confusion. Dwarven Forge tiles are scaled for 25mm to 32mm figures. The tiles are one scale even though the measurements are very slightly different.
Can you use the one square equals five feet scale but not the new one square equals 10 feet scale? Of course it does not make a difference. The statement "The 2 different scales are highly similar" is at the very core of the problem. The difference in measurements is minor. I would add that more allment issues are due to slight variance due to the Manufacturing process.The minor adjustments can be corrected with shims( matchbook covers) or in radical examples with hot water and a vice.
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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by AnimeSensei » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:46 am

We are getting caught up again in contention and irrelevant issues.

Simple answer is:

KS1 and KS2 are highly compatible with each other in regards to footprint/height of their pieces. KS3 and KS4 are highly compatible with each other in regards to footprint/height of their pieces. The 2 different scales are highly similar but there is a difference between each grouping. KS5 has been stated to be more in line with the KS1 and KS2 size. They still work with KS3 and KS4 but work better with KS1 and KS2. That's it.
106 Resin and 145 Dwarvenite Sets/Packs Owned

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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by bernyleung » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:21 am

For the sake of sanity (at least mine, if not everyone's), please let this thread die. I have truly lost count of the number of posts and arguments and back-and-forth about this topic.

DF has stated (multiple times) that KS5 will more align with KS1 than anything else it has produced in the past. But let's all see the forest for the trees. We are talking about a product created from the minds and hands of artists, and meant to be used in a shared social gaming construct in which 90% of the visualization happens in the mind and no where else.

A millimeter or fraction of a millimeter difference here and there between pieces cannot, and should not, be the final straw that destroys the enjoyment of the game or the process. If it does, then we collectively are the most pitiable people on the planet.

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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by Oldent » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:15 am

The KSI tiles are produced in a rigid mold. The master produced is a thermoplastic it has to be flexible to remove it from the mold. During the process the PVC is set/frozen in a water bath. The is process produces slight variations.The result is that no two will ever be exactly the same. The water bath probably has enough oil in it for a prudent person should wash it before painting it.
Resin is cast in a flexible mold. The result is the same. No two will ever be exactly the same.

Measurements do not need to be scientific but using the same scale or ruler would help to reduce tolerances.You do not need to measure like a scientist but more like a cabinet maker.
The tile can not be exactly the same. So it is important to use the measurements from the plain.

So which Plain? If you want to describe one of the old plains as Legacy just tell us what that is :!: :!: :!:
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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by Oldent » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:34 am

jchunick wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:49 pm
Oldent wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:31 pm
One from KS1, I'd imagine. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You have not measured or tried to square any have you?
What would I have measured or squared? You might have also missed the part where I said that I get the pieces to mod. There's really nothing for me to measure about the tile insofar as I'm not sculpting the tile, just modding it with LEDs and the like.
You made a comment about the size of a tile without making measurements. You do not know what size the tile is or even if it is square. That proves my point.

The issue with the size of the tiles is "Mark one eye ball" vs a ruler and a square.You are obviously in the "No respect for the dimensionally unchallenged group".

" You might have missed that it was a DF backer/customer that originated the term, legacy. I don't think customers should be getting accused of down playing or hiding a mistake."
A imprecise term is confusing regardless of who originated the term.

As for "intent to accuse" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Lame :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I will refer to legacy as "The Big Lie"if you prefer ;) You can blame it on Hitler. :lol: Sarcasm escapes you even when it is labeled sardonic.
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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by jchunick » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:49 pm

Oldent wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:31 pm
One from KS1, I'd imagine. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You have not measured or tried to square any have you?
What would I have measured or squared? You might have also missed the part where I said that I get the pieces to mod. There's really nothing for me to measure about the tile insofar as I'm not sculpting the tile, just modding it with LEDs and the like.
Unless otherwise noted, my views and opinions on this forum are my own and do not, in any way, reflect the views and opinions of Dwarven Forge.

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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by jchunick » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:41 pm

Oldent wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:31 pm
3. Imperprice terms like "legacy" Legacy, a term used to down play/hide a mistake.
You might have missed that it was a DF backer/customer that originated the term, legacy. I don't think customers should be getting accused of down playing or hiding a mistake.
Unless otherwise noted, my views and opinions on this forum are my own and do not, in any way, reflect the views and opinions of Dwarven Forge.

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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by Jonathan » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:05 pm

Before continuing this thread, please read this previous thread on this subject. It contains a lot of specific analysis and identifies some popular misconceptions about the subject.

https://www.dwarvenforge.com/forum/view ... =32&t=7592

Short version: The DF scale is an inch (or 1/60, if you like). There has always been a little variation that happens with every single sculpt, even within a given year of production like KS1. Some KS1 pieces are 1.96" on a side, some are 2.00". Some are very slightly more than 2.00". They're not all perfectly square on the bottom, either. It's not correct to say that KS1 had a certain size piece and KS3 had a different size piece, since some KS1 and KS3 pieces were virtually identical in size, but other KS1 (and KS2, KS3) pieces had other sizes.

It seems like DF's plan has always been to make pieces are are in exact multiples of inches, as precisely as possible. As the years roll by, they've gotten better and better at the precision: KS1 pieces were generally closer to 2" than some resin sets, KS3 pieces generally had less variation from 2/4" than KS1, and KS4 looks to be even more precise than KS3. I'd guess the plan for KS5 is to continue to make pieces in exact multiples of inches, as precisely as possible.

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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by Oldent » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:31 pm

jchunick wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:53 pm
Riley wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:35 pm
I wonder which "legacy size" piece is being used as a reference?
One from KS1, I'd imagine.
I started to make a sardonic comment when I saw this comment. I changed my mind when I saw Jchunick's Post.

The problems involved with size.
1. Imperprice measurements from piece to piece. Mark one eyeball Vs the metric system.
2.Mark one eyeball vs the T square.
3. Imperprice terms like "legacy" Legacy, a term used to down play/hide a mistake.
Scale? What scale is it? Toy O vs 25mm?
4. Total lack of respect for the dimensionally unchallenged.

One from KS1, I'd imagine. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You have not measured or tried to square any have you?

If I use Mark one eye ball they fit together rather well. That is generally ok with me. :D
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Re: Size Thread - will KS5 pieces be same size as KS1?

Post by oddbender » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:10 pm

Ahhhhhh man! I wanted HO scale! ;)

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