Burrows Revisited

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jackattack
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Re: Burrows Revisited

Post by jackattack » Wed May 25, 2016 5:36 am

The d20srd describes a mature purple worm as being 80' long and 5' wide, so I think the narrow burrows we're talking about would work for them, as well as ankhegs, remorhaz, and some others.

If the burrow pieces are a 1" wide flat floor with an upward curving lip on either side, the lip portion might be as narrow (and high) as another 1/4" on either side. That may leave some gaps between pieces, but in this case negative space would represent unburrowed (solid) earth. It also means intersection would have short extensions in each burrow direction.

The sculpt on burrows will need to cheat between disturbed earth and smooth stone (for lava tubes and Horta tunnels), but maybe features like roots in earth might be sculpted in a way that they could double as something else (magmatic intrusions? red hot cracks?) in stone.
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Re: Burrows Revisited

Post by Runeweaver » Tue May 24, 2016 11:26 pm

jackattack wrote:Is there a compelling reason that the burrow/tube pieces couldn't be 3"/75mm wide? One inch for the mini, and one inch on either side for a curved wall that goes up one inch high. I know that breaks the 2"x2" paradigm, but do we expect to put these tunnels side-by-side with caverns or dungeons? Do we expect to need rooms/chambers?
This is what I think that I am wanting. Much like the KS2 is right now with the slight lip. Of course there are bigger burrows that take shelobs and the like (shudder), but that is not what I would use a piece like this for anyway. This type of piece requires you to stare claustrophobia in the face and squeeze into the hole! That is what the small critter burrow holes and tunnels are used for in my mind.
jackattack wrote:Actually, I think we do expect to need rooms/chambers. Many burrows and lairs have places for the burrower and its mate and its young to sleep, and places to turn around in case something follows it into the burrow. Ants are known for complex tunnel systems with multiple chambers for specific purposes. And if you want more than one character to fight whatever menace lives in the burrow, you need a place for more than one miniature to stand side-by-side.
True, but we don't require much in the way of this for what I have described above. Perhaps the one or two more rooms. They don't even need to be that modular. Maybe just a Wicked Burrows Add-on could complete the existing set. If we are really wanting to widen out the area for a larger battle, then I would suggest that we use the existing caverns (resin or dwarvenite) for this endeavor.
jackattack wrote:Or do we like the "outside lip" design from KS2?
I do. It adds imagery to a close cramped space while still being able to place in a single miniature. The lip allows slightly larger miniatures to be placed their regardless, and are assumed to be squeezing. Now this is a bit ridiculous for a Purple Worm, but a Purple Worm hardly leaves the type of trail that these burrows represent. They are more along the lines of narrow caverns.

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Re: Burrows Revisited

Post by AnimeSensei » Mon May 23, 2016 4:52 pm

Again, I would go for a modular design like the sewers where walks are separate. That way you can make your tunnel as wide as you want. But then to keep then from looking too square I'd like ways to make chambers more rounded
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Re: Burrows Revisited

Post by Oldent » Mon May 23, 2016 3:43 pm

The Dollar Tree toy ants don't have bases so I think the will fit the 2" by 2". My old Mega miniature ants will fit 1" bases.I have some small ants too.
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Re: Burrows Revisited

Post by jackattack » Mon May 23, 2016 3:18 pm

Hey, you brought up ants... ;)

If the low wall or lip on the outside of every 2"x2" burrow piece (with a 1" passage down the middle) was consistently even (height-wise), could one safely balance a 50-60mm based miniature on top of the pieces? The mini would obviously be larger than the space available, but for game purposes would be inside the burrow.

Ant (and other) chambers might have to be 4"x4" pieces with 3"x3" interiors. Do we want multiple pieces with different numbers and configurations of entries. (Ooh, just thought of a way to do this in a very simple yet very complicated way... :twisted: )
Last edited by jackattack on Mon May 23, 2016 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Burrows Revisited

Post by Oldent » Mon May 23, 2016 3:06 pm

I envisioned animal burrows something like the sewer spillways. There would be entrances in the cavern and dungeon walls.The Burrows would replace the floors. There would only need to be burrow walls for long sections in the negative space. The curve, Y ,T and + section would need to be available.

If you wanted a scenario in a giant ant nest or a long worm burrow more parts would be necessary.How many people want to build somthing like this? :?: I made a Shelob lair a few years a go.I used expanded foam.I did not have the PVC caverns then.

My monsters are on 50mm and even 60mm bases.I have the metal Reaper Purple worm on a 50mm base. I think the D&D purple worm is on a 70mm base.The Bones Purple worm could fit on a 40mm base. Would there be enouth demand for DF to create a new size worm :?:
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Re: Burrows Revisited

Post by jackattack » Mon May 23, 2016 3:04 pm

Just started a new thread for mines...

Is there a compelling reason that the burrow/tube pieces couldn't be 3"/75mm wide? One inch for the mini, and one inch on either side for a curved wall that goes up one inch high. I know that breaks the 2"x2" paradigm, but do we expect to put these tunnels side-by-side with caverns or dungeons? Do we expect to need rooms/chambers?

Actually, I think we do expect to need rooms/chambers. Many burrows and lairs have places for the burrower and its mate and its young to sleep, and places to turn around in case something follows it into the burrow. Ants are known for complex tunnel systems with multiple chambers for specific purposes. And if you want more than one character to fight whatever menace lives in the burrow, you need a place for more than one miniature to stand side-by-side.

That kind of puts us back in the 2"x2" standard, although I still think walls that curve "out" and up the same distance would be nice.

Or do we like the "outside lip" design from KS2?
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Re: Burrows Revisited

Post by pacarat » Mon May 23, 2016 2:08 pm

With a ~50mm width, need about 30mm for a mini / base. Doesn't leave much on each side for the curved wall of tunnel/tube.

Could go with a 2x2 being just one side of a tunnel, allowing for a bigger base, and more detail in the wall, but then you are back in the footprint of cavern sized pieces.

Most of the burrowing/worm type creatures I have would not fit in a narrow passage sized tunnel (i.e. a single 2x2 with dual side walls).

A secondary theme that could integrate with the critter tunnel (and using the 2x2 as one side of tunnel) would be mines. Could have improved (walls, supports, etc.) and rough/primitive (critter style), and maybe a third that is delapidated/collapsed. And dont forget the tracks and carts.

I'd buy a bunch - usable for medievals, fantasy, modern, pulp, sc-fi bug hunts, pirates - shucks...even Tom and Huck.

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Burrows Revisited

Post by jackattack » Mon May 23, 2016 1:31 pm

For the original thread discussion, go here:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4773&hilit=burrow

Recent musings from another thread:
AnimeSensei wrote:I would like rounded walls like in the sewer sets so we could be in something like a purple worm burrow hole or lava tube.
Runeweaver wrote:I've said it before and other posts, but I'll mention it here, I would really like an expansion to the burrow and critter wall hole. The idea is intersections, forks in the path, and straight sections. This is something along the lines that anime has mentioned above. Because you could use this as a purple worm burrowing trail.
Oldent wrote: I think there is room for a full expansion with T,s and Y,s and nest sections. Giant ant nest would be fun. There really is not much difference between the Purple worn tunnel and a giant ant tunnel.
I think the important thing is to make sure that a mini with a round or square base can stand up on the floor of the tunnel.

Thoughts?
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