Awesome Burrows and or niche terrain

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ebrandeis
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Re: Awesome Burrows and or niche terrain

Post by ebrandeis » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:38 am

I love the "niche" products such as sewers, burrows, and Erinthor mountains.

Each was released as a natural extension or enhancement of another concept (sewers beneath cities, mountains adjacent to castles, burrows extend from dungeons).

I like that I could get a fully functional kit of each for around $400 (don't remember exact pricing...) and that they stand on their own.

I love that there are so many ways to integrate each into other builds and not just their primary counterpart (e.g. mountains work well with caverns in addition to castles, sewers can attach to dungeons or caverns instead of just beneath your city, etc.).

Most of the time I don't need or want $1000 worth of basic dungeon, caverns, or whatever. I'd much rather spend the money on a greater variety of pieces. It's rare that I'm trying to fill a 3'x5' space - I tend to use trays to build smaller modular sections.

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Rabbit Burner
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Re: Awesome Burrows and or niche terrain

Post by Rabbit Burner » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:58 am

We came in on DF in KSIII CBS 'cities' as they could be used in a wargamming environment, so we approach DF products from a different perspective than most core DF backers.

Went really big into castles for the above reasons and we love castles and have been looking to get a big modular castle for ages and DF provided it :).

But in producing Castles DF were moving away from their core RPG/DnD market, whilst there were still enough backers to more than adequately fund the project, the backer number were significantly reduced from KSI Dungeons, KSII Caverns and KSIII CBS (CBS had reduced backers compared to the first two).

So overground terrain does not seem to fit core DF backers and/or their budget and as such could be seen as niche.

However the demand for Castles at retail was quite significant and whilst may not move Castles away from being niche it would have certainly made them more profitable.

So we think you could reasonably expect a bump in desire for burrows in retail, we can see them being similar to the Erinthor mountain sets in KSIV. And this we believe will mean DF will not stop producing potential niche items as long as they think they are cool and there will be some/enough demand.

It can be argued that the production of these niche or 'low yield' pieces are subsidised by the more popular 'high yield' pieces and as such make those 'high yield' pieces more expensive.

We are happy with this scenario if it means we get more diverse and niche pieces/sets, but its understandable that some core backers are not as they want more 'High yield' pieces at a lower price, but its a decision for DF and money is not the be all and end all for them.

Docks would be an interesting example as these can be obtained from other vendors, but there will always be a demand for current backers to have dwarvenite docks but we believe they would be niche.

But we think that any move away from Dungeons and Caverns and entering areas which other vendors already provide similar products and so can be considered niche risks alienating some of their core backers.

We think there is always room for Dwarvenite niche in the tabletop world, but I think its hard for all the core backers to agree on what else they should produce either as variations on existing sets or as completely new sets.

Glad we don't have to make any of these decisions but so far happy with DF have done so far even if Caverns of Doom were not top of our wish list :)
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kodiakbear
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Awesome Burrows and or niche terrain

Post by kodiakbear » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:10 am

In his opening KS6 post Nate spoke about KS5 items.

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=8945
natetaylor wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:14 pm
A Burrows expansion on the other hand probably won't show up (they underperformed).
While I love the look of burrows, I only had so much money to spend and since KS5 was advertised as a return to the dungeon, burrows will have to wait. I have heard this from many other backers, with some saying that burrows are just to niche. It got me thinking about the low number of castle KS backers and the future of DF terrain, while KS1, KS2 and KS5 all were very successful KS4 just did not have many backers. So, if castles and burrows prove to be niche it makes me think about KS7 and the future for DF terrain.

Do you think burrows will prove to be niche?

Some have wished for docks are they too niche?

Or perhaps the real question is not whether anything is too niche it maybe what is the set cost that people are able/willing to pay for it. I do not really need docks but if a set of docks was small enough to be price like an add-on then I would likely get it. Burrows ranged from about $200 to $439 that is a far cry from when I dipped my toe in and started getting water cavern tiles back in KS2. Sure, the burrows sets should cost more than water tiles but if a person is on the fence about getting something they may try it out for $100 but are they going to go for it for $200-$439?

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