3D MapMaker for KS5

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lostpict
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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by lostpict » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:07 pm

I skipped KS2 and did not know about the tool, until KS3. I used the heck out of it then to figure out my KS3 purchase (substituting various tiles for the KS3 tiles) and although it could not directly due 3D, managed to plan many KS3 style castles and large buildings without to make sure I had ordered enough stuff. I had hoped an update would have come out with KS3 and planned to use it to map my city into 4'x4' districts. I ended up doing it with grid paper, but it is just not the same. :(

I think a new version of it would be a great marketing tool. In fact, I would even structure my KS campaign around such a tool (not as a stretch-goal) so that folks could figure out their pledge with something other than math and spreadsheets. :D
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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by ebrandeis » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:55 am

Just as a footnote, one of the 3D printed game tile companies has a map making program that supports multiple levels. It also generates a customizable tile list to help you decide what to print based on the build and your existing collection.

I can imagine something similar working for DF if done well. It would appeal to the collectors since they could enter and manage their collection and to the builders since they could pre-build digitally and generate lists and maps, both for shopping and for game time.

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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by galahad » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:38 am

I would certainly be interested in such a program.
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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by GODofwar » Mon May 22, 2017 6:33 pm

jchunick wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 2:42 pm
@GoW,

Sorry, I should have been more clear that I was addressing jackattack's post just before yours about it being used as a sales tool.

Good point about different uses. I guess that a 'layer' feature would also then be a nice feature to add. We'll see if maybe I could create a pack that can be used with the MapForge app, since I'm a bit involved in that project... I know the guy, Hernan, talked with DF about it, but I'm not sure where the conversation went. However, if I did all the work to get it into the software and it could do all the same stuff as the old, online one then maybe DF would be fine with a pack being created for it. Here's the link to the software (in development thru Kickstarter funding):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ba ... r-tabletop

Sounds like a lot of work, Josh.

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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by jchunick » Mon May 22, 2017 2:42 pm

@GoW,

Sorry, I should have been more clear that I was addressing jackattack's post just before yours about it being used as a sales tool.

Good point about different uses. I guess that a 'layer' feature would also then be a nice feature to add. We'll see if maybe I could create a pack that can be used with the MapForge app, since I'm a bit involved in that project... I know the guy, Hernan, talked with DF about it, but I'm not sure where the conversation went. However, if I did all the work to get it into the software and it could do all the same stuff as the old, online one then maybe DF would be fine with a pack being created for it. Here's the link to the software (in development thru Kickstarter funding):
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ba ... r-tabletop
Unless otherwise noted, my views and opinions on this forum are my own and do not, in any way, reflect the views and opinions of Dwarven Forge.

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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by GODofwar » Mon May 22, 2017 2:07 pm

jchunick wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 8:33 am
I disagree with the Mapmaker as a sales tool. I don't think the effort needed to rebuild it with 3D features is worth it because it wouldn't be very effective at driving sales.

The Least Weasel Totus KS Delenda Sunt: I must not have been clear. I agree with you -
just that specifically a 3D tool would not attract new bloods, which IMHO is DwF's biggest single market element that needs work.
:

One thing that my experience at my local ThunderCon convention drove home to me is how important having a hands-on demonstration is. People who see the stuff up close are pretty much sold on it, on the spot.
The Least Weasel Totus KS Delenda Sunt: Absolutely agree, Josh. I suggested this last year in emails offline. My angle was cons, not private parties - at cons you get not just your players by walk-bys. Both would work I think.:

What would probably be magnitudes more effective is having a grassroots type of program where suitable representatives would be chosen based off applications and where they are located. These reps could get paid in Dwarvenite or store credit for holding gaming parties. These gaming parties would run 2-3 hours and show off Dwarven Forge. Those who went to these parties would provide their name and email in order to get put on an email list and get their names to ensure an accurate person count was obtained. They may also be given a 10% one-time coupon toward purchasing their first set, or maybe a special loss-leader type of deal on a designated set such as dungeons. As well, there'd be some DF prizes people could win at the gaming party.
The Least Weasel Totus KS Delenda Sunt: This would apply at cons too.:

Going back to the mapmaker tool, keeping it 2D for CBS and Castles seems completely pointless to me. I've worked in a lot of 2D and 3D software over the years and played my share of 3D games, along with those games that allowed you to build or lay out stuff such as cities and I'd find a 2D tool quite useless for such 3D layouts.
The Least Weasel Totus KS Delenda Sunt: I just want to be able to map one layer at a time and thenuse the map to build the layout. Each of us has different uses for the tool, I"m sure.:
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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by jchunick » Mon May 22, 2017 8:33 am

I disagree with the Mapmaker as a sales tool. I don't think the effort needed to rebuild it with 3D features is worth it because it wouldn't be very effective at driving sales.

One thing that my experience at my local ThunderCon convention drove home to me is how important having a hands-on demonstration is. People who see the stuff up close are pretty much sold on it, on the spot.

What would probably be magnitudes more effective is having a grassroots type of program where suitable representatives would be chosen based off applications and where they are located. These reps could get paid in Dwarvenite or store credit for holding gaming parties. These gaming parties would run 2-3 hours and show off Dwarven Forge. Those who went to these parties would provide their name and email in order to get put on an email list and get their names to ensure an accurate person count was obtained. They may also be given a 10% one-time coupon toward purchasing their first set, or maybe a special loss-leader type of deal on a designated set such as dungeons. As well, there'd be some DF prizes people could win at the gaming party.

Going back to the mapmaker tool, keeping it 2D for CBS and Castles seems completely pointless to me. I've worked in a lot of 2D and 3D software over the years and played my share of 3D games, along with those games that allowed you to build or lay out stuff such as cities and I'd find a 2D tool quite useless for such 3D layouts.
Unless otherwise noted, my views and opinions on this forum are my own and do not, in any way, reflect the views and opinions of Dwarven Forge.

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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by GODofwar » Sun May 21, 2017 11:11 pm

jchunick wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:28 pm
lostpict wrote:I really liked the MapMaker program and used it a lot to help figure out my KS3 plans. It would be great if an update was planned for KS5 including all the Resin and all the Dwarvenite pieces, plus the ability to build in levels, and maybe even include some sort of rotating or perspective view could be incorporated.
That would be very cool. Because I've developed websites and software, and dabbled in 3D this is something I've looked into. From my experience, a project like this - basically, creating an editable and manipulatable 3D environment on the interwebs - would take something like Unity3D to build and wouldn't be a trivial task. All the pieces would have to be either 3D modelled or scanned in 3D, then tweaked/cleaned up. Then you'd have to build an asset management system, a system that would allow you to save builds and probably integrate some sort of community asset sharing system. There is, of course, the environment to still build - an interface with tools to help you manipulate the pieces - a 3D environment that you can move around in, change views, show/hide grids, build features like snap-to, and such... This all would cost a lot of time and money so it would either have to come out-of-pocket, or like the first one, be integrated into a Kickstarter.
I'm not a software guy, but I"ve managed sizeable projects that involved a lot of software development (like what was eventually adopted as the US Army training management program, and the transition of the ARmy Reserves to a computer-based training system). I think you're right, this is a bridge too far.

As a sales tool, I doubt it will bring in new blood- and that is what we need.

I would be perfectly happy with a 2D map update. THAT was a usable service.

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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by jackattack » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:05 pm

I think the MapMaker is a sorely underrated and underutilized sales tool. It should be kept up to date, with updates made alongside KS product releases/announcements. It should be featured much more prominently on the website.

Nothing sells DF like using DF, but no one can actually use a product that hasn't been manufactured yet. Being able to go straight to a simulation of the product is the next best thing, and allows potential buyers to see how things fit together and how many pieces they need for layouts they want to build.

Photo examples are nice, and I encourage those as well, but no number of photos will show every layout, nor answer every question.

It also gives potential pledgers and buyers an opportunity to see what sets won't do, allowing pledgers to bring up potential issues or expansions that might be addressed in the current KS, and possibly referring buyers to additional sets to purchase.

Long story short (too late!), +1.
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Re: 3D MapMaker for KS5

Post by Harneloot » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:42 am

lostpict wrote:I agree, it is not a trivial at all. I would be happy with 3D models with relevant texture and shape. For that matter, just getting all the current and future resin and dwarvenite in the current tool would be a great step.
Yes, PLEASE!

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